My Interview on The Freedom to Feel Podcast

Aloha, everyone. This is another Freedom to Feel conversation, and my guest today is Eli Recht. He is a licensed psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, EMDR practitioner, spiritual counselor, editor, and teacher of Self-realization. Eli is a certified Raja energy healer and a student of Paramahansa Yogananda’s Kriya Yoga meditation techniques. He’s also the editor of Philip Weber’s books, Grace Happens and Reflections of Consciousness. This is a bio of you, Eli, but I know it’s not the whole of you, just a little piece. The full bio will be at the end.

The question I love to ask, I’ll be asking you in a moment. I ask everyone from the very beginning. But I would love to say a prayer, some kind of meditation, perhaps a moment of silence to Yogananda. Today is his birthday. He is a being that was, to me, exactly that… Being. A being of light that came here to show us how can we express ourselves in this human reality, more as a being than the human with the different kinds of traits. So I’m really grateful for his presence in this reality the way it was. And thank you so much again, Eli, for bringing that to my attention, to my field of awareness. So I’ll put him on the screen, and then I would love for you to take the stage.

That’s a beautiful photo of him. And thank you, Valeria, for your introduction. I’m happy to be here. I love your channel and I love everything that you’re doing for the world, and it’s been really wonderful following along with all of your updates in Kauai. It sounds like you’re doing some really amazing things. So I appreciate that and I really appreciate your beautiful balance of love and wisdom that I feel from your presence. And yes, today is Paramahansa Yogananda’s birthday, who I consider my Guru. It’s hard to put into words how grateful I am for him for everything that he’s given to me and to the entire world. So maybe just a simple “thank you” would suffice and happy birthday.

Happy birthday, Yogananda, my dear. It’s like he’s here with us. What a beautiful presence. So the question that I usually ask everyone, Eli, is “How do you introduce yourself? Who are you really in your own words?”

I was prepared for this one. I knew this one was coming. But it’s very hard for me to answer this question, as I’m sure it is for others, because I don’t really identify as anything in particular. I guess it depends on what level of consciousness or what angle of things we want to look at life from. I could give a different answer depending on the context or on a different aspect. But really: I’m a spark, an individuated spark of consciousness. It’s hard to put into words, you can’t really speak about it, but I know myself as Beingness Being, maybe is one way to say it.

Beautiful, yes. How did you come to this realization? Was it a moment in time? Did it happen gradually? I’m wondering.

It happened gradually. I was very seriously on the spiritual path for about six years with gradual realizations and evolution happening. And then there were moments of realization, moments of awakening that showed me once and for all my true nature. And since then, it’s been a gradual process of learning to abide in it and learning how to live it in an embodied way through form. So it’s a little bit of both. It’s been very gradual but also with moments of knowing that have really solidified things.

Yeah, that resonates with me too. When it comes to this embodiment of the realization of the Self, of our true nature, is that something that you call a practice? Are we practicing to be what we already are?

Ultimately, no, we already are what we are. We are what we seek. There’s nothing that can change that. But some of us just don’t know that. Some of us just aren’t awake to that reality yet. And for those people, there is a practice. There can be a practice. And I find that a practice usually is most helpful rather than just saying, you know, “I am being.” There are things we need to do in order to realize that. But as I say in some of my webinars and teachings that I have, it’s not really a doing. The practice that we’re doing is really an undoing because the ego, which is standing in the way of our realization — it’s the veil that covers our awareness of true self — is already very active, it’s already doing a whole lot, and it’s actively veiling our consciousness. And so the spiritual practice and the path that we go on is all about undoing. I love Nisargadatta’s quote who said, “Sadhana is a search for what to give up. Empty yourself completely.” So it’s not about adding something, it’s about releasing that which is false. And that’s the practice. That’s always the practice.

Yes, I love that. I love even the concept of it, of letting go. We have heard about it, this has been said for so long by so many people. So many books have been written and speakers say “let go, let go, let go, be God, surrender.” That’s another one that I hear all the time in the healing work. I’ll say this again here, because it is the truth. I love therapists because that’s the work that you’re doing. It’s the work of undoing, the healing work. It’s the body-heart-mind that gets affected by so much, so much trauma and impressions and conditionings. Isn’t it, Eli? So talk to me for a moment about that, because it’s still my journey, kind of unlearning a lot, especially in relationships. It’s not easy.

No, it’s not easy. And I do feel that the healing work and opening of the heart is really critical. It’s really important for spiritual awakening to realize what we are. So I think psychologists and therapists and healers are doing such beautiful and important work in raising the consciousness of the planet as a whole and on an individual level.

I debate about this with some people from time to time, but I know there are some teachers and some people who say there’s no healing that’s needed, you know, just realize the Self. And that’s true in theory, but in practice I find that it’s not so simple. We really need to open ourselves up and let go and surrender. There’s something active, an effort, that’s required until there isn’t effort that’s required.

It’s sort of paradoxical, it’s confusing, but the inner work, the trauma work, it’s very important to thin the veil of ego so that we can then realize what we are. If the trauma veil is too thick or too strong, then we may have glimpses of our true nature from time to time if we meditate or something, but it’s going to be hard to stay there permanently because we have these blockages, traumas, impressions, karma, that’s in the way. And so my feeling is that we need both. We need to cultivate the light. We need to cultivate that awareness. And we also want to heal and release any traumatic karmic impressions. And the two together, bringing the light and the darkness together, is really the key to sustaining a permanent Self-realization.

That very much resonates with me too. I’m a student of Advaita Vedanta, and one of the things that I learned, that was so clear and simple to me in the teachings is: that the only thing that matters, really, is knowing that everything’s sacred, that only God exists, only the sacred is, there’s nothing else but that. So that has been making a big difference in relating to people, to everything, not as an object. Everything, and I mean everything, that looks like an object, it’s not an object to me. Everything’s alive, fully alive. So I’m always relating to everything that way. That really, really helps for me.

Yes, I fully agree. Everything is consciousness vibrating. Everything is Beingness Being, right? I said that’s what I am, but that’s what everything is from my perception. Everything is Beingness Being. Everything is alive and present, full and sacred, like you said.

It feels that way. I’m aware that this is another concept because in truth, Being doesn’t need concepts, right? We don’t need to understand with intellectual mind. We don’t need to use language even to express it. It’s already here. But it’s a beautiful concept, isn’t it? A beautiful story, I would say. That everything’s God, everything is… I mean, I can’t help if I have to use one story to kind of run my life, and it’s that one, that everything is sacred. So treat everything as such. That really opens my heart too. It’s something that happens instantly. So with that in mind, what is that that keeps closing that door? The mind seems to question, something in the mind keeps questioning that. “No, no, no, no, no. This violence cannot be sacred. This president cannot be sacred.” Things like that. So talk to me for a moment about, you know, this dissonance.

Well, it’s ultimately ego that closes the heart. But what is ego? I would say at the core of ego is fear, is this need for control, to protect and defend, and also false beliefs, false ideas. And so that’s what closes our heart ultimately, is that we have these experiences that come through and we’re not able to tolerate them, maybe because we have fear, because we have a need to control, because we don’t understand, because we have a belief about something that is ultimately just an assumption and not based in truth. And so because of all that, we end up closing our heart. And then we see things as good versus bad. Not everything is sacred anymore. That’s ultimately why. It’s resistance to What Is.

What a beautiful answer. Wow, Eli, that’s so true. How do we engage with that when some people behave in a very strange way? I would say they hurt nature, they hurt innocent babies and animals. So how do you engage with that without the perception of good or bad? I’m just wondering.

First of all, seeing animals and babies and children and others being hurt, that hurts the heart. So that’s the first experience that I have is one of pain or compassion for those who are suffering or in physical pain. But from a place of wisdom, there’s also a recognition that it is the way that it is. And because it is the way that it is, it is the way that it needs to be. And if it needed to be different, it would be different. If it’s not different, it’s because it doesn’t need to be different or it needs to be the way that it is. And so it doesn’t negate the love. There’s still love, there’s still empathy and compassion. That’s uppermost. But the wisdom allows a bit of buffering or a bit of tempering from being overwhelmed with pain and sorrow. And it helps us to understand that everybody is on the journey, right? Everybody’s learning lessons and they’re doing what they’re doing. Everybody’s doing the best they can, believe it or not, but they’re being run by subconscious forces. And so they may not have the wisdom or the understanding or the Oneness to recognize what they’re doing to another aspect of themselves. And so, from a place of wisdom, there’s a recognition that that’s what’s happening, that people are on their journey and they’re learning and no one’s perfect and suffering is also part of the drama. It’s part of the journey.

One of Yogananda’s direct disciples, Brother Anandamoy, used to say that this is all Divine Mother’s Halloween Show. And I think he used those words “halloween show” specifically because it’s tragic, right? It’s joyful and it’s beautiful and it’s full of love. Yogananda said at the very end of the Autobiography of a Yogi that “every saint who has ever penetrated to the core of reality has testified that a divine universal plan exists and that it is beautiful and full of joy.” So we know that part of it, and yet it’s also a halloween show, meaning it’s tragic and it’s scary and it’s horrible. And the key is: can we hold both of those truths at the same time? It’s very, very challenging, but that’s the whole deal.

That’s beautiful the way you said it. I hear the voice of wisdom as you call it. To me, you’re speaking from the divine, that pure part of not just you, but part of everything that’s speaking through you. It’s so beautiful to hear. Thank you. Yes, it’s being able to hold everything. And that’s not for everyone, I understand. So do you actually see that as a destiny for some of us, that we are here, that we came here designed to awaken and to hold duality as one? Is that something you believe?

Yes, I do see it that way. I think everybody is on that journey towards Self-realization, whether they know it or not, whether they like it or not, but everybody has free will in the moment as well and they can choose to pursue it or not. And that’s okay too. You know, it’s okay that there are people who are not interested in Self-realization because that’s part of their journey. Ultimately, it is the journey that they’re on. But if they don’t see it that way or they’re not interested in realizing their true nature, that’s part of the perfection of the universe too. You know, so everything is perfect really.

However, in this current time that we’re living in, I do think there is an urgency. I feel it. There’s an urgency to really wake up and to do our spiritual work. And those that do that work and raise their consciousness are going to be better equipped to navigate the future. Things are unfolding and structures are collapsing and new forms and new ways of being will emerge. And those who raise their vibration will be in the best position to navigate that. So I do think there’s an urgency. But again, if it’s not for someone, then I personally respect that and honor that because that’s part of their journey too.

Right, I just could be with that forever. You reveal this truth using words and your body language, the way you speak in such a graceful way. Thank you. I have devotion for these things. I can’t help it.

That’s so sweet. Thank you. Me too.

Love it. So with that in mind too, preparing to hold this spiritual knowledge or awareness, EMDR has been something that I came across recently in the last two, three years and I kind of waited to try it myself and then I did it. It’s just incredible. One session, it already changed a lot. I used to go to sleep and I had to have my meditation and my music playing. After one session, I just let go of that. The mind was so much more calm and didn’t need it.

Yeah, it’s a pretty remarkable technique. I actually was very skeptical of it at first. When I first heard about it, I thought, “No, that can’t be, it’s not possible. You can’t just work through trauma like that. You really have to go into the depths and you have to feel it and face it and it’s gotta be painful.” And so I was a little bit hesitant and resistant to EMDR. But then after the awakening, I contacted a spiritual teacher, Stephan Bodian, who was a practicing therapist, and he was helping me clear up some of this sort of trauma leftover, what I call karmic runoff, after the awakening. He did some EMDR with me, and I was shocked at how powerful it was. It was just one session and things shifted.

For other people it maybe isn’t so clear and fast. Everybody processes trauma differently. But EMDR is a really incredible technique. I’ve been very impressed with it and so I decided to train in it and I’ve used it quite a bit with clients and there have been some really great results.

I know, I’m so glad you integrated EMDR into your work. I was very skeptical too at first because I interviewed a lot of people here who explained how it worked with the eye movement and all that. I’m like, “that cannot do it.” And then I tried. It was incredible. Now I’m a big fan. I’m just passing that on to everybody. Everybody can try.

Yeah, me too. And eye movement isn’t the only way to do it. There are other ways. The key is that there’s a bilateral stimulation, an alternating left and right stimulation. You can do it through moving the eyes. You can do it through tapping. You can do it with buzzing, or with audio tones too, left and right. So the key is that it’s bilateral, not so much eye movement.

Okay, thank you for adding that too. It’s more than just eyes. It can be somatic, right? The tapping, that’s what I tried.

It can be somatic, yes. Everyone’s going to have their own way that works best.

I see, you just try it to see the way they respond best. I just love it. I had to make a comment about it here. I want to talk about your books, too, the ones that you have, the books that you have edited for Philip Weber. So I’ll have them on the screen. And then if you could please… I love everything about it, too. I would like to hear a bit about him, Philip Weber, and how you met him, and then about each book.

Okay, sure. So Phil came into my life, I knew about him peripherally for a number of years, because we have some mutual friends in common, but I met him ultimately through the Self-Realization Fellowship, which is Yogananda’s organization. And I was going through this awakening in 2020, and I had a close friend who knew Phil, who I was confiding in about all the transformation that was going on and the kundalini and the energy and all this stuff that was transpiring. And it was beautiful and incredible and also very, very tough and challenging. And he recognized, he said, “Eli, I think you might be going through a genuine awakening. Let me connect you with Phil Weber because he went through an awakening several years ago and maybe he can help you.”

So we started this sort of email exchange and then we connected in person. And right away he sent me the manuscript for Grace Happens. He had just written it about six months before he sent it to me. And he said, “Why don’t you read this? Maybe it’ll help you,” because essentially the book is his own documentation of his awakening experience as it was happening.

It’s sort of a moment-by-moment account of what was unfolding. And it was very much paralleling my experience. So I read it, I soaked it up, it was a phenomenal book. And I had this intuitive knowing when I read it that I would edit this. If Phil will allow it, then I want to edit it and I want to make sure it gets out there. Because I feel that it’s a very unique book. There are not many accounts of people who document their awakening as it’s happening. People talk about pre-awakening and then post-awakening after all the dust has settled, but not many people talk about the transition, the transformation that happens. And so I felt that his book really brings that to the forefront. And then during the awakening I managed to edit it because he moved in with me. I asked him to move in with me to help me. It also helped him in a number of ways too. So we were really helping each other during this time and we’re still a great team. And so I edited Grace Happens during the awakening transition. So it was mirroring what I was going through. It took a little bit of time to get it published. It took a few years to get it published, but it was edited and ready to go at the end of 2021.

And then Reflections of Consciousness, his second book, just kind of came out. He was living here with me, and it came out in just the span of a few weeks. Every essay just flowed through him and it was written in 2024, three years after Grace Happens was completed, and seven years since his awakening under his belt. And so the Reflections of Consciousness book has more of a mature voice. It’s not as raw as Grace Happens. It’s a little bit more refined and you can feel that Phil has really found his ground, the Ground of Being. And it’s just wonderful to follow along with his process. And the second book, Reflections, is a compilation of 18 essays of different topics. So topics like the stages of awakening, different paths that people can take, how the journey and the spiritual path evolves and transforms over time, intuition, Grace, the nature of reality, and much more. There’s just so many wonderful essays in that book on different topics that I think it’s just really, really phenomenal. And not to mention, both books are seriously funny and playful too, which adds a whole different element than what you normally get from these types of spiritual accounts. Finally, Phil has chosen for all of the profits from these books to go to the Interfaith Community Services (ICS), where he used to volunteer assisting the homeless and disadvantaged.

It sounds like it. I have three questions before I forget them. I love the covers, to look at them too, the pictures. Did you choose them? Did you choose them together? That’s one question. The other one is about the Ground of Being. I would love for you to describe what that is like, that state. And then Grace Happens. I love that. I have to read the book now about this process. And so the question that I have interviewed some people here about, that we often talk about and bring into the conversation, is: how do we know the difference between spiritual awakening, the legit, the real thing and mental illnesses and some form of distortion within the brain? So those three questions.

Great question. Remind me if I forget, but the first question was the images. Phil and I worked together on the images. Phil mostly had an idea of what he wanted on the cover. And then we were working with a wonderful guy who took the edited manuscript and then formatted it for Amazon. And he offered a few image choices and we decided on these. But we did have a basic gist of what we were wanting and then he ran with it and he was great. Question number two, can you remind me?

Yes, the Ground of Being. What does it feel like, the description of that?

The Ground of Being. The Ground of Being is really a term I and others sometimes use to describe reality, awareness, consciousness, being itself. It’s the core of who we are. It’s the deepest place. It’s the source. These are all words we could use, but it’s very hard to describe. If I had to put words to it, I would say there’s a groundedness, a spaciousness, a peace, an emptiness as well, but also a fullness at the same time. So it’s empty of anything material. It’s empty of objects, empty of concepts, empty of vibration, empty of mind. Yet it’s also full of presence.

Hmm, I love that. I love all those, they resonate with me too. I’ve been on this journey for a long time trying to find words for what it’s like, this ground of this Being. And then what comes to me most of the time is very simple. I’m always here. It’s presence, really. It’s always… What is something that I know for sure? Every time there’s a challenge within the mind, some situation in my life, I always go back to that. What is something that I know for sure? The truth is that I’m always here. It’s always here. And then that changes everything. And it doesn’t at the same time, right, Eli?

Mm-hmm. Exactly. I am.

I’m still also struggling to come up with the right words to describe my experience. And I just know that I’m never going to be able to capture that. That’s an occupational hazard that I’ve signed up for. I love what Adyashanti says. He says (paraphrasing): “I know I’m going to fail in describing the realization, but I want to fail well. My hope is that I fail well.” So that’s my hope as well. I do the best I can to describe it, but I know it’s never going to cut it.

I really love that you mentioned Adyashanti. I was listening to him for some reason, I don’t remember what it was. Some spiritual teachers, very famous ones, they don’t resonate with me. I listen to them and I don’t want to listen anymore. I don’t know exactly why, but some of them, they’re oh, they’re just incredible. And I just want to listen. There’s something about them that resonates with me. And he’s one of these people.

Oh, that’s great. I really love Adyashanti, and I agree with you. There are even teachers that I resonate with and some that I don’t. That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with what they’re saying. I think everybody is speaking Truth in their own way. We’re all pointing to the same One Truth, but from different angles, right? So not to say that what they’re saying is wrong or inaccurate, but there are some energies or presences or messages that resonate more than others, and I think that’s great. I think that’s why we have so many wonderful teachers out there in the marketplace that we can find.

Yes, to choose from, to dance with.

Yeah. So, to everyone listening or watching, I encourage you to find what and who resonates with you, with your intuition, and not feel like you have to stay with a type of technique or path just because it’s what your mind tells you is the right thing or what others tell you that you have to do. The spiritual journey is so unique for each person. That’s one of the messages I really feel strongly about bringing forward: that the spiritual journey is so unique for each person. And so it’s not great to compare. It’s helpful to hear other people’s stories. I think that’s important. You want to hear and get a sense of what it’s like, but if you start comparing on the level of ego or mind, you can get into a lot of trouble and it doesn’t really do good for us. It does more harm than good.

It’s so true, I absolutely agree. There’s the idea I see from some spiritual circles that they wear specific clothes and they all look the same and they are supposed to behave the same way, but that’s like a more religious type of thing, I’d say, right?

Yeah, that would be a specific tradition and maybe there’s a reason for that. I think there’s value to tradition and lineage as well, of course. It gives gravitas to a person’s teaching. But I was never really drawn to that. And to be honest, I’m not very drawn to sort of outer displays or even rituals very much. I keep things really simple and I like to blend in. You know, my personality is actually quite introverted, believe it or not. I don’t know if people will guess that, but you know, my personality is very quiet and private, just by nature. And so I don’t like to stick out. I like to blend in.

What a great thing to do. We need some of that spiritual camouflage. We need that out there in the world. “Oh, he looks just like me.” Well, he looks like you, but he perceives differently, very differently.

Sure. The perception is different, but we are all One. And I will say, I am out on the world stage as a teacher. I’m wearing the hat of a spiritual teacher, even though I don’t identify as that. And the reason I’m doing that is not so that I can be seen, because I really prefer not to be known or seen, but it’s to help. And I had this realization that if I don’t put myself out there, I can’t help people. You have to put yourself out there in order to help people. And so that’s a concession that I have been willing to make in order to be able to do that.

This is something that also resonates with me in a devotional way, that once we are touched by Grace, touched by what we call pure consciousness, we kind of almost like make this commitment to share that somehow. It doesn’t have to be grandiose. It’s your own way somehow.

Yeah. Exactly. Everybody shares and gives love in their own way, right? Everybody’s going to feel called in a different way.

Yes, Eli. So, the third question was about… do you remember?

Yes. The third question, the difference between spiritual awakening and mental illness. That’s a great one. I’ve really wrestled with this one a lot in my work. And I’ll say a couple things. I think mental illness, and maybe we can have a conversation about this because my thoughts are kind of just formulating as we go. I’m dancing with you in the moment. I think one thing I’ll say is that the emotions are a big indicator of whether something is a genuine awakening or mental illness. For example, if you look at the mental disorder called dissociation, or the official diagnosis would be Depersonalization/Derealization, it’s this sort of sense that you’re separate from the world, you’re kind of detached and not grounded, and you’re kind of a floating head. You feel like things aren’t real, like things are dreamlike.

And right off the bat, when I describe that, that sounds very much like a spiritual awakening, right? This sort of detachedness, no sense of real identity, things are dreamlike, things aren’t real. And that can describe a genuine spiritual awakening, but it can also describe mental illness, like dissociation. The main difference is in the emotions. Dissociation is essentially a defense mechanism that the ego uses to push away feelings, to push away emotions. So if you can’t tolerate the emotions that are coming through, you’re going to use a defense mechanism like dissociation to push it away, and that’s going to create this sort of detached feeling. But that’s not the awakening. That’s mental illness. So the key is you want to allow the energy to flow. If the energy is flowing, then it’s more likely a genuine realization. If you’re having emotions, the whole range of emotions, then most likely it’s going to be a genuine realization. So the key is in that. It’s in the energy flow. With dissociation, there’s no energy flow. There’s a block. With spiritual realization, there’s flow. There’s constant flow. And the internal experience is different.

So that’s the key, I think, the overarching key, to whether something is a realization or mental illness. Are you using defense mechanisms? Are you avoiding something? Are you resisting something? Mental illness almost always comes from resistance. It comes from ego, whereas spiritual realization is the opposite. It’s non-resistance. So oftentimes it’s hard to tell from the outside, but internally there’s a very significant difference. Does that make sense?

It very much does. I would use the word fear, coming from fear. So love vs. fear. Have you heard about the book called A Course in Miracles?

Oh sure, I work with a lot of people who really love A Course in Miracles, so I’m familiar with it. I think it’s great.

Right, I love the concept, the main message: If you are connected with this flow of divine energy, cosmic intelligence, then love and expansiveness in love is the foundation. It can be felt too by others, everything you do, the things you do, your behavior. But then if it comes from fear or resistance, it’s not coming. It’s the disconnection, it’s the delusion of disconnection, of course, because we are never disconnected. But we are kind of creating that barrier.

Yes, exactly. I love that. I’m familiar with that concept in A Course in Miracles of love and fear as sort of being opposites. And I know Conversations with God has a similar take on that. But I agree, either we’re coming from love or we’re coming from fear. And so our actions matter, but what matters more is where our actions come from, the origin of our actions. Are we acting from a place of fear or from a place of love? That’s the key. That’s the key difference between spiritual realization and mental illness. So thank you for adding that piece.

Beautifully said. I’m very sensitive to energies, so especially those energies of feeling love, I can tell immediately. And then I remember being so many times in the presence of people, they are so calm and they seem to be very peaceful and calm, but they are doing exactly that. They are pushing away something and I can feel it. Like, oh my God, this is not peace, this is something else.

Mm-hmm. Yes. I want to add too that it’s really hard to be able to discern whether someone is truly realized or not. Because like you said, on the outside they could look very peaceful, but on the inside there’s a lot of turmoil. There might be a lot of resistance or just a density of ego. So it can be hard to determine whether someone is truly awake because it’s an entirely internal or subjective experience. But I like what Adi Shankara said. He said (paraphrasing), it’s hard to tell, but oftentimes you get a nice feeling when you’re around someone who is genuinely awake. There’s pleasant sensation. And that’s, I think, because they’re emanating a presence, they’re emanating an aura. It’s the energy field that they’re creating around them, that we can tap into. I think that’s probably a better indicator of someone’s realization.

The exact quote from Shankara is: “What are the signs of Enlightenment? Not always easy to say: one cannot know for sure another’s state of consciousness, it is a highly subjective matter, not open to another. Nevertheless, you will have some good feeling when you meet an enlightened being. Because they are tranquil in all circumstances, wise and impartial, they will exude something attractive, something pleasant that makes you enjoy being in their company and want to stay near them as much as possible. Something about them feels nourishing. This magnetism will usually be interpreted as an effect of their personality, but it is not to do with that superficial level; it is a natural effect of the fact that they are living and radiating the Self, which is as much your real nature as it is theirs. The Self is the most attractive thing there is, and it draws everyone, eventually.”

Yes, I rely on that energy and not the behavior, because we don’t know. In Advaita, one of the Swamis said, which I think was very wise… when somebody asked that question, how do we know somebody’s enlightened? And he said, we can’t. Because they don’t talk about energy. Usually Advaita doesn’t teach you, especially religious ones, will never tap into the idea of soul, spirit or any of these things, they don’t talk about these things. But he said the only way you can really tell is in difficult moments, challenging moments, how they hold themselves, their composure, like when they’re dying, getting sick, lost somebody, somebody died in their family, could be somebody very close, their children, that’s how you know. Then it will be so clear to others.

I agree. It’s almost like the world tests them to see, and that’s how you can tell, I think. It’s a good indicator. Still not perfect. Still not perfect, but a better indicator.

No? They could still… wow, they could still kind of fake that in a sense? That would be interesting.

Sure. I think it’s hard to do that, but it’s certainly possible. Someone could be going through a really difficult experience and they seem very calm, but inside they’re struggling. Or they are just suppressed, and they may not even know it themselves.

Wow, that’s incredible how you can even control the facial expressions and the physiology, right? Yogananda used to talk a lot about that. You can control your heartbeat. You can actually put yourself to sleep. You can do so many things. That’s true. I practice, not Kriya, I tried Kriya, but I like Yoga Nidra. That’s one of the practices that really brings the heart rate down. It’s just incredible. I just love Yoga Nidra for some reason.

Mm-hmm, it’s a great one. It just relaxes the whole body sequentially and really helps you to deepen into these inner layers, the inner world. So I love Yoga Nidra too. I think it’s great. I’m also very sensitive like you. I was always. I grew up sensitive and that was very challenging. I used to see it as a curse, especially when other people in my life would tell me it was a bad thing. But now I see my sensitivity as a real gift. It’s a real blessing because I’ve learned how to use it in the right way. So for anyone out there who’s listening who’s very sensitive or is familiar with the term Highly Sensitive Person, which is gaining popularity these days, it’s a good thing. It’s a beautiful gift. We just have to find our own way of navigating it.

Yeah, that’s it. And I think it becomes probably more pronounced when we have spiritual realizations. Then I see that we can use it and it becomes very helpful. It has been in my case. Although I don’t speak of, I don’t come from that perspective of saying, “I’m awakened, I’m enlightened” and all those things, because I think everything is already there. You are what you’re looking for, everything is sacred. So I don’t, it’s almost like not wanting to make the separation again. I am, I already have this level of understanding, but you don’t. So without saying sometimes we can embody those ideas.

Absolutely, that’s how I see it too. If I’m being truly honest, I don’t see any separation. I don’t see any difference. You know, we’re all awake, right? We’re all One, we’re all the same at essence. And unfortunately, or fortunately, I have to make a concession in order to be able to help others. So I do have to come out and say, “this is who or what I am, this is what I offer.” And it does inevitably create a little bit of separation, or rather an appearance of separation. But again, that’s a concession that I have chosen to make. But deep down, I don’t really see a difference. We’re all One, we’re all equal, we’re all awake.

Yeah, that’s a useful, helpful separation, I would say, for your path. Like you mentioned earlier, we are all different in the sense of navigating this reality and these very unique temples, body-mind. So yeah, I became very interested in destiny, like what is this destiny? And then I heard about karma, right? So basically, you’re just running off karma and it will do what it does. You just have to be calm.

Well said. The thing that I love about life is that we’re all One at essence, but we’re also all unique in our own ways. And it’s a miracle that we can be both at the same time. And yet both of those are the same thing. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense to the mind, but it’s my experience and it’s just so incredible how we can maintain our individuality. And all that hard-won psychological work that we do, that remains with us even after awakening. Our personality, our character that we’ve built over years of experiences and inner work, that stays with us, which is beautiful. And yet we also lose that sense of individuality and separation. And so the human experience is just such an incredible thing. You know, the Sufis would call it a barzakh, meaning like a bridge or a transition. The human being is a bridge between different dimensions, between different aspects of reality. And so how we can be both unique and individualized and at the same time One with all things is just one of those beautiful mysteries that I love taking in sometimes.

It sounds like magic in itself, right? I think in Vedanta they call it lila, you probably heard in Buddhism, but in Vedanta they call it maya. It’s just a divine play of consciousness. I love having fun, I can’t help it. My kind of fun is really learning and curiosity. I love learning new things. It could be a small tiny thing. It just makes me so happy. And then also when I’m able to witness that, I’m able to interact with certain difficult situations and difficult people, I still see the Oneness, the connection, the everything. You are divine too, just like me, my God. I mean, you don’t behave like me, but you just say, isn’t that incredible?

Exactly. It’s incredible. And also when I look at animals too, I really feel that Oneness. There’s just a… I don’t know, especially when I look directly into an animal’s eyes or a creature’s eyes, I just really feel that divinity in their presence. I feel that Oneness, sometimes even deeper than usual. So beautiful.

Oh my God, yeah. I could just melt right now. If I take all that energy, I’ll just blow up. Because I love looking at the eyes of animals. Oh my God. I don’t know what it is. Yeah. I think that’s what you’re saying because you see, you almost experience that. Oh, it’s incredible. You’re right. Just by imagining, I’m already like melting here. So thank you for bringing this up. That’s joyful.

I know, isn’t it special?

I love animals. So, my God, Eli, we are almost at the end. I could talk to you forever.

No way. Wow, that went really fast. Okay.

I know I could talk to you like for ages. Is there anything, there’s so many other things that we didn’t talk about that I had, I made note of, but I love flowing, being in the moment. I want to mention your services. Actually, I’ll ask you, talk to me about your services and your website. I’ll have it here.

Okay, so speaking of animals, I offer a Teaching service, spiritual teaching, where the focus is Self-realization for those who are interested in waking up to their true divine nature. That service is available internationally or in person, and I don’t make any money from it. It’s a completely optional donation. If people want to make a donation, they’re welcome to. And everything that I receive goes directly to the local animal shelter here in Encinitas in my area. So that just feels like something I was called to do.

And then I also have a Psychotherapy practice that only is available for people in California, virtually or in person. Just because of my license, I’m not allowed to practice with anyone living outside of the state.

What else? My website, it’s about three years old now and I think everything’s pretty clear and intuitive on the website if you want to click around. Especially my Blog page is where I have all of my writings and teachings and videos and interviews. So if anyone’s wanting to dive deeper into that, just check out my Blog page and I’m always updating it. I have a newsletter that I send out. Right now I’m sending it out monthly. It might not always be monthly. I never know how often it’s going to get sent out. I send it out depending on what’s happening in my life. But if you want to sign up for that, you can do that too on my Connect page.

So the website will be on the podcast at the end of the video in the podcast notes. Elirecht.com. Are you planning to write a book, your own book?

You know, I think it’s highly possible that a book might show up in my future, but right now there are no current plans. I’ve got enough on my plate as it is, and I love working one-on-one with people. And so that’s how I spend most of my time. Maybe in the future if something were to shift or if I get a strong intuitive knowing that a book needs to get written, then that will happen. But for now, I’m happy to push Phil’s books because they’re phenomenal. And I do have a Foreword in the second one. I edited both of them. And yeah, so we’ll see. I’m playing the long game here, so we’ll see what happens with books. But you can always check my Blog tab for new writings and new offerings. That’s where it’s all going to be for now.

Thank you. And yeah, you mentioned before the flow. Yes, we never know what will happen next. I’ll have also Philip Weber’s two books linked here too. The Amazon link will be here and his website as well. They’ll be on the podcast notes, the written section. Thank you so much again, Eli, for your beautiful presence. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It has been wonderful, really wonderful.

Gosh, it’s my pleasure, Valeria. Yeah, I’d love to stay connected. Thank you. I really appreciate you and your wonderful presence, truly. And thank you for all that you do. I love your podcast, your channel is just great. Really beautiful interviews. And I admire the energy and the intentionality that you bring to your work. So thank you for that. And it’s been a real pleasure to spend some time with you today and we’ll be in touch.

Yes, I would love to be in touch. I love doing this. It’s very joyful. I have a Native American here in Hawaii, and we play around and say, “if it’s not joyful, I’m not doing it.” So we only do joy, things that come from joy or create joy. That’s the whole intention.

I love that. “Follow your bliss” as Joseph Campbell would say.

Something like that, within the flow. Thank you so much again, Eli, for your beautiful presence, and we’ll talk soon. Bye for now, my dear. Aloha.